[Catalist] Physics Education at the 23rd AIP Congress

Sun Jun 3 14:55:57 AEST 2018

Leon, as always you make valid points and ask pertinent questions. I have numbered your three paragraphs so that I can respond accordingly. My paragraph 4 is in response to Roy’s point regarding outstanding female astrophysicists in WA.

  1.  A year or two ago I sent a message to CATALIST flagging that I wanted to reverse the trend of our best WA students going to the East for their tertiary education. I pointed out that according university ranking websites that use only objective research performance data, such as http://www.leidenranking.com/ranking/2018/list , we can be ranked quite high (Curtin is currently fifth in Australia for impact (sort by column PP) in “Physical Sciences and Engineering”). Accordingly, we created an Advanced Physics course with an ATAR of 95, and which had Math Spec as an additional prerequisite. This has proved a big winner and several of the students said that if it wasn’t for this degree they would have gone East. The 50% increase from 2017 to 2018 is due to the extra enrolments in the Advanced Physics degree.
  2.  Too true, the entry to professional science in the tertiary sector is extraordinarily competitive, and there are very many who will be disappointed. I address this at the outset emphasising that there are many outstanding STEM-based careers outside academia. Opportunities run in waves, and people have to be in the right place at the right time. We all have to have plan A, B, C,…
  3.  In that regard our greatest threat is that outstanding physics students, who also have the social and organisational skills to become great school teachers, are not choosing to do so. The major factor behind this is that these days there are just so many other choices available to them, and most work-places are doing their utmost to create family friendly environments. The teaching profession is not as competitive in being attractive to such students as it once used to be. This is a work in progress for many of us!
  4.  Another weakness I wish to address is the lack of female students that we have in Physics and Engineering. This is a big issue now, but wasn’t when I was a student 30 years ago, when we had similar numbers of girls and boys studying highest level mathematics and physics (engineering seems intractable!). As Roy has pointed out, in WA we are very fortunate to have many female astrophysicists, and in my department also several other fantastic female scientists who are keen to engage with schools. Accordingly, we have created the website https://scieng.curtin.edu.au/schools/electrical-eng-computing-maths/physics-and-astronomy/for-high-schools/ where our staff would be happy (if not overly subscribed!) to talk about their science.

Kind regards,

Igor
From: Catalist <catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net<mailto:catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net>> on behalf of Leon Harris <leon at quoll.com<mailto:leon at quoll.com>>
Reply-To: "leon at quoll.com<mailto:leon at quoll.com>" <leon at quoll.com<mailto:leon at quoll.com>>, Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net<mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net>>
Date: Sunday, 3 June 2018 at 11:42
To: Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net<mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net>>
Subject: Re: [Catalist] Physics Education at the 23rd AIP Congress

It is gratifying to hear your experience Igor.

1. However, you may be looking at inputs, whereas I am speaking of outputs.
It is not uncommon in times of downturn (and the business, engineering and mineral sectors are in the throes of a large downturn) for students to choose the harder and longer term subjects - it is a way of turning an unemployable time into some kind of (long-term) benefit. How large was last years intake? Can you attribute a reason (a mechanism) for the 50% increase?

2. My comment still stands about longevity in science careers.  This needs careful attention.
I note that a number of top students in science that I know of have avoided it for career reasons. They are also mostly second generation science families, so they bring a degree of cultural capital and understanding of the lifestyle choices to it.

3. We are not out of the woods yet as far as securing a sustainable succession of our knowledge and skill base into the next generation.

Cheers,
Leon

On 2/06/2018 4:13 PM, Igor Bray wrote:
Dear All,

May I offer a slightly different perspective coming from the University sector. This year at Curtin we had a 50% increase in students choosing a Physics Major, and my UWA colleagues tell me that their numbers have increased also. Furthermore, the Physics students are now particularly academically strong with our median ATAR being 95. More important than a high ATAR is that students have taken Math Specialist in year 12, and more than half have. We have made Math Specialist a prerequisite for the Advanced Physics degree, and with luck I’ll get this through for the Physics-Electrical Engineering double degree (I call it the SKA degree) in the next couple of months. So things are looking rather rosy from our perspective.

It is important to appreciate that at University we do not teach Physics to just make professional scientists. On the contrary, I make it very clear to all first year students that our degree is a multi-cultural degree that combines world-class mathematics, computer science and physics. The graduates will get access to jobs across a wide range of the knowledge-based economy. There is nothing wrong with the fact that just a few of our top graduates become professional scientists. Most of our students will get jobs across finance, resources, medical research, computer programming and technology, and this is a wonderful thing for our society. We get the brightest students, and we train them to be successful on the world stage.

Many physics and mathematics teachers have lamented at the damage done by universities when they removed the prerequisites, dropped their standards, and have created an ATAR maximisation game instead. I am very sorry that this happened, but some of us are now acting to undo the damage of the past. I also have very strong support from the Australian Academy of Science in this regard. I am confident that as physics flourishes in WA universities, as it has to with the extraordinary investment in the SKA and the related STEM areas, this will feedback into the school student choices.

With best wishes to all,

Igor

P.S. I just came from the https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/itamp-event/developing-flexible-and-robust-software-computational-atomic-and-molecular-physics-0  meeting, where we turned our attention to education of physics students. Our multi-cultural education mix was deemed best available practice.

--
Igor Bray, John Curtin Distinguished Professor
PhD, FAPS, FInstP, FAIP, FAA
Head | Physics and Astronomy
Director | Theoretical Physics

Curtin University, GPO Box U1987 Perth, Western Australia 6845
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From: Catalist <catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net<mailto:catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net>> on behalf of Leon Harris <leon at quoll.com<mailto:leon at quoll.com>>
Reply-To: "leon at quoll.com<mailto:leon at quoll.com>" <leon at quoll.com<mailto:leon at quoll.com>>, Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net<mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net>>
Date: Saturday, 2 June 2018 at 13:46
To: Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net<mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net>>
Subject: Re: [Catalist] Physics Education at the 23rd AIP Congress

Thanks Roy, you are very kind.

For teachers, we need to modify the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics here to something like: "Shut up and keep marking !".
Alas, I fear the kind of change is too hard for our kind of society under these conditions.

These things act against us:
1) 3 year election cycle - can't do long-term planning.

2) Collapse of the public service as a "check and balance" that could provide the long-term view that is missing in 1)

3) Rise of the client-server model in the educational context. Customer(student/parent) happiness does not necessarily map onto system success. This is particularly clear when the goal of parent and system don't align (ie one wants the maximum grade(benefit) for their child and the other wants the fairest and most accurate measurement of the child's ability that will give a suitable benefit to that child). Don't blame the parents - hey I seek to rort the system to my child's benefit too! Just be mindful of the conflict and don't pander to the parent.

4) Shift to exam focus rather than mastery focus. Continually refining the teaching strategy to fit the instrument that assesses its success means pruning away of "deep mastery". We don't teach reasoning, logic, or problem solving, we teach NAPLAN and ATAR. As generations of teachers come through this system, their knowledge and skill base becomes whittled away, and we will continue to sink ever lower (Unless we are able to sell our folly to our competitors as best practice! ).

So yeah,
shut up and keep marking.

Above all, enjoy the sunshine and the beautiful weather, it is still affordable on a scientists salary!
Cheers,
Leon

On 2/06/2018 12:07 PM, Roy Skinner wrote:
Wise words Leon – as always!
You could apply your reasoning to becoming a teacher of physics. I think in 20 odd years here I have only had 2 of my students go into teaching physics.
Much better to become a footy player!
Roy

From: Catalist [mailto:catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net] On Behalf Of Leon Harris
Sent: Saturday, 2 June 2018 11:56 AM
To: Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net><mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net>
Subject: Re: [Catalist] Physics Education at the 23rd AIP Congress

Hi Roy,
I'd be suspicious that your students answer may just be an excuse. Plenty in religious sector do physics, around where I live more than in the state sector (data from 5 years ago).
There are plenty of bright kids in state schools who dodge physics due to lack of need and stress-avoidance. Why would you do it if there is no reward for it?

My experience in the religious sector was that kids tended not to do much out of hours. To most of my scienc-ey kids, a 51% grade in RE was a 1% waste of effort, and only necessary to avoid the 49% waste of effort that a 49% grade was! Quite an instructive little lesson there in measurement uncertainties (aka, try harder, unless your measurement scale is very fine!).

The big, unspoken, yet-to-be-courageously-acknowledged elephant in the room is that there are few rewards for high performance in STEM. Real estate and finance are far more lucrative. Bankers get bucks, scientists get soft contracts until they are 35, and then they get desperate and get into teaching or real estate. This needs to be fixed, as that kind of human capital takes decades to create, and the "burn it up and throw it away" approach to the profession that Australia has is very poor at utilising our talent base. Anyone recently taught a postdoc molecular biologist doing a dip Ed? I seem to recall that the retention rate "in their chosen field" for most scientists is somewhere south of 10%, a decade out of graduating with a higher degree.

Second big idea: We need to move away from a "game-able" education system. We need to shift the culture: the exam isn't the goal, it is an instrument by which we measure knowledge gain. Until we do, with the apparent stakes so high for a 17 year old, they will play it. Wouldn't you, if your future depends on it? It is up to us (the educational professionals) to engineer the system - we should modify to set culture, not just take the culture imposed by the lowest common denominator of society. That will take years of work, persuasion, media and politics. I may not see it in my time.

Look at subject choice and career from the perspective of the person entering it:

1) Do I need this subject for this career?
2) Can I have a decent life, with time for love, recreation, experiences if I choose this career?
3) Will I be secure, be able to have a house?
4) Will I be happy and fulfilled?
5) Will there be time for other things in my life?

Summary: If you want to increase the number of people doing something, you need to examine their motivation system and then align your offerings to that. Motivation drives choices and decisions!
Cheers,
Leon

On 2/06/2018 10:14 AM, Roy Skinner wrote:
Maybe I am opening another can of annelids here but on the subject of fewer students taking physics I would like to offer an anecdote.
One of the girls I teach after school who is studying chemistry and is very bright was asked why she wasn’t doing physics.
She replied that she went to a Catholic school and had to study RE as a compulsory extra subject on top of the others. The extra subject would put a strain on her she said.
Is this unfair pressure on students in Catholic schools?
What do the teachers in Catholic schools think?
Roy

From: Catalist [mailto:catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net] On Behalf Of John Clarke
Sent: Friday, 1 June 2018 12:19 PM
To: catalist at lists.stawa.net<mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net>
Subject: [Catalist] Physics Education at the 23rd AIP Congress

Hi All,
The AIP Conference is in Perth at the end of the year at UWA. There will be a couple of days for Physics teachers / educators. The Call for Papers is open for another few days. Details below.

John

Physics Education at the 23rd AIP Congress

A shout out to passionate Physics Teachers and Educators, we would love to hear from you at the Congress!

The 23rd AIP Congress<https://aip.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=6d4d211b98df0adf8a3692fe2&id=bd03c08549&e=ed9a1b6c19> will take place in beautiful Perth on the leafy campus of the University of Western Australia, from 9-13 December, 2018. Call for Abstracts<https://aip.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=6d4d211b98df0adf8a3692fe2&id=3542fb4b60&e=ed9a1b6c19> are open now until 15 June 2018.

Join us for a High Tea event at the Congress with the Keynote speaker Prof Chandralekha Singh (University of Pittsburgh, USA), for a PEG keynote entitled “ How to strengthen physics by making it inclusive”  The High Tea will be held at the University Club, UWA<https://aip.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=6d4d211b98df0adf8a3692fe2&id=1f849d7d63&e=ed9a1b6c19> (date: TBD, but will be held during the PEG streams of the congress).
[Image removed by sender.  https://gallery.mailchimp.com/6d4d211b98df0adf8a3692fe2/images/56b1154b-06c7-45c8-91ea-947384f61edd.jpg]

We have kick-started planning for plenty of activities at the congress. Help us spread the word amongst Physics educators of all levels that this congress is for them!  We are also planning to run professional development sessions for school science teachers. And of course, make sure to submit your own abstract for a presentation! Abstract submission is open until 15 June 2018.

If you have any new ideas/suggestions please feel free to contact your PEG team. If you have a suggestion for a invited speaker, please let us know.

Contact us
Do you have any ideas or news you would like to share in our newsletter? Contact us!
Chair: Maria Parappilly<mailto:maria.parappilly at flinders.edu.au?subject=for%20PEG%20Newsletter> (Flinders)
Deputy Chair: Jasmina Lazendic-Galloway<mailto:jasmina.lg at monash.edu?subject=for%20PEG%20Newsletter> (Monash)
Officer for Special Projects: John Daicopoulos<mailto:john.daicopoulos at jcu.edu.au?subject=for%20PEG%20Newsletter> (JCU)

Information about your state representatives can be found here<https://aip.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=6d4d211b98df0adf8a3692fe2&id=06244b4656&e=ed9a1b6c19>.

John Clarke
CEO
STAWA
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Cannington WA 6107
PO Box 7310 Karawara WA 6152
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