[Catalist] Fwd: Re: Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in Australia

Sat Mar 17 11:13:13 AEDT 2018

Oh, that's a shame! I bought tickets.

From: Catalist [mailto:catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net] On Behalf Of Igor
Bray
Sent: Friday, 16 March 2018 12:50 PM
To: catalist at lists.stawa.net
Subject: Re: [Catalist] Fwd: Re: Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in
Australia

Dear All, 

It turns out Lawrence Krauss is not coming to Perth, only Richard Dawkins.
Accordingly, I will not be able to organise anything special for schools
with Lawrence. Too bad, it worked really well a few years ago. I'll try
again should another opportunity arise.

Kind regards,

Igor

--

Igor Bray, John Curtin Distinguished Professor
PhD, FAPS, FInstP, FAIP, FAA
Head | Physics and Astronomy
Director | Theoretical Physics

Curtin University, GPO Box U1987 Perth, Western Australia 6845
Tel |       +61 8 9266 7747
Fax |      +61 8 9266 2377
Mobile | +61 4 0489 2862  

Email | I.Bray at curtin.edu.au
<applewebdata://88FA8217-EDE9-40F2-B470-C2962A11AFD8/I.Bray@curtin.edu.au>  
Web Curtin | http://curtin.edu.au <http://curtin.edu.au/> 
Web Physics | <http://physics.curtin.edu.au> http://physics.curtin.edu.au
Web TP | http://itp.curtin.edu.au <http://itp.curtin.edu.au/> 

Curtin University is a trademark of Curtin University
CRICOS Provider Code 00301J

From: Catalist <catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net
<mailto:catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net> > on behalf of "SYME Eric
[Thornlie Senior High School]" <Eric.Syme at education.wa.edu.au
<mailto:Eric.Syme at education.wa.edu.au> >
Reply-To: Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net
<mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net> >
Date: Thursday, 23 November 2017 8:47 am
To: "leon at quoll.com <mailto:leon at quoll.com> " <leon at quoll.com
<mailto:leon at quoll.com> >, Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net
<mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net> >
Subject: Re: [Catalist] Fwd: Re: Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in
Australia

Hello Catalistians

Leon, what wonderful, erudite and relevant material you write.we all benefit
when you contribute  to Catalist.

For those of you interested in this discussion please consider attending
this
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/Rv1VB3s8kAopI1?domain=tickets.thinkinc.or
g.au>  presentation next year.

An excerpt is pasted below:

Presented by: Think Inc

Believe it, unbelieve it, then believe it again - Richard Dawkins (The God
Delusion, and The Selfish Gene) and Lawrence Krauss (The Greatest Story Ever
Told...So Far, and A Universe From Nothing) are once again gracing the
shores of Australia in 2018.

Both heavily respected scientists, authors, and public intellectuals in
their very own right, evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins and theoretical
physicist Lawrence Krauss have been staunch ongoing opponents to the waves
of irrationality that continually plague the public sphere. Revered for
their unapologetic appraisals of critical thinking and equally-unapologetic
takedowns of religion, the duo will weigh in on the current state of
anti-scientific affairs with new leaderships, new attitudes, new
irrationalities, and new news that still remain as more of the same.

Running Times:
Times are approx. and subject to change at any time.

Event Start: 7:00pm
Approx End: 8:30pm

Tour Dates:
Ticketek is selling for the following venues only

Wed 14 May 

<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/vxwbBvfXwYonHd?domain=premier.ticketek.co
m.au> PCEC Riverside Theatre, Perth, WA

Sun 20 May 

<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/nbpeB6h63vrdCQ?domain=premier.ticketek.co
m.au> Darling Harbour Theatre, ICC Sydney, NSW

Eric Syme

Head of Learning Area - Science 

E:  eric.syme at education.wa.edu.au <mailto:eric.syme at education.wa.edu.au> |
M: 0400 765 536

From: Catalist [mailto:catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net] On Behalf Of Leon
Harris
Sent: Thursday, 23 November 2017 7:04 AM
To: gpmcmahon1; Catalist
Subject: Re: [Catalist] Fwd: Re: Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in
Australia

Thanks Graham, it is interesting.

When reading the bible, a certain degree of allegorical bendiness, that some
might describe as playing fast and loose with what is actually written is
used by many Christians, and indeed is necessary to derive non-contradictory
meaning from that text. That is part of the toolset and armoury, "the
religious method" if you like, that is needed to get the valuable and
worthwhile content from that store of moral and cultural wisdom that is the
bible.

My writing is not the same - it doesn't need that level of finessing to get
meaning. I would very much like you to highlight in my writings where I have
stated what you have claimed.

Cheers,
Leon

On 23/11/2017 6:42 AM, gpmcmahon1 wrote:

Hi Leon

An interesting discussion. Could you explain the logic behind your statement
that the first cell didn't come from a deity because the existence of a
deity cannot be tested? BTW have you seen the 2007 movie Flatland?

Cheers Graham 

-------- Original message --------
From: Leon Harris  <mailto:leon at quoll.com> <leon at quoll.com> 
Date: 22/11/2017 11:27 PM (GMT+08:00) 
To: Catalist  <mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net> <catalist at lists.stawa.net>
Subject: [Catalist] Fwd: Re: Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in
Australia 

Well not from a flying spaghetti monster. Nor from any other being not
supported by testable evidence.

Many, I suspect, haven't fully formed a view of who. At our current stage of
cultural development, we are more focussed on working on how. At this time,
we apparently can't see beyond the singularity of the big bang, but there is
no evidence of a deity available between now and that point. If there were,
scientists would be religious, because we deal in evidence.

When somebody discovers something, you are welcome to quote John 20:27 to
me. Until that time, scientists will mostly remain sceptical.

On 22/11/2017 11:05 PM, SAMUELS Norbert [Balga Senior High School] wrote:

It could therefore be considered surprising that almost 60% of Australian
adults believe that God or a supernatural being was behind the universe and
all life, and the majority of these people do not accept the
well-established theory of evolution but believe that God brought about this
universe and life, fully developed and similar to how we see it today, out
of nothing."

Reference 1 URL:
https://www.plainreason.org/articles/survey-creationism-australia/
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/1RkoBVunOeKpSd?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> 

So if creationist believe evryyhinh that we see today was brought about from
nothing.

Where do evolutionist belive it came from?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: Gregory Munyard  <mailto:gmunyard at iinet.net.au>
<gmunyard at iinet.net.au> 

Date: 22/11/17 11:21 am (GMT+08:00) 

To: catalist at lists.stawa.net <mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net>  

Subject: Re: [Catalist] Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in Australia 

Dear All

What a pity we can't be a bit more broad minded and accept that evolution
doesn't actually provide ALL the answers to the orgins of life (e.g. the
"evolution" of DNA/ RNA polymerase, helicase, the whole protein synthesis
system - without protein synthesis there is no polymerase), that there are
many erroneous and fraudulent discrepancies (Haeckel's embryos, the Biston
betularia scandal) and that the science behind evolution is sadly lacking
(we weren't actually there to see what happened, so it's not observational
science). From my limited perspective, this post could equally be entitled
"Belief in Evolutionist Pseudoscience in Australia".  Now, let's see the
feathers fly.

Regards

Greg Munyard

From: Catalist  <mailto:catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net>
<catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net> on behalf of Igor Bray
<mailto:igor.bray at curtin.edu.au> <igor.bray at curtin.edu.au>
Reply-To:  <mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net> "catalist at lists.stawa.net"
<mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net> <catalist at lists.stawa.net>
Date: Tuesday, 21 November 2017 at 10:41 am
To:  <mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net> "catalist at lists.stawa.net"
<mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net> <catalist at lists.stawa.net>
Subject: Re: [Catalist] Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in Australia

Dear All,

I'd like to thank Michael McGarry for raising the issues below, and in
particular to those relating to the Australian Academy of Science. As a new
Fellow of the Academy (FAA) I have asked that the page at the last link
below be rewritten, and until this has been done, be removed from the site.
It has now been removed, and I hope to see the new draft before it goes
public.

Kind regards,

Igor

--

Igor Bray, John Curtin Distinguished Professor
PhD, FAPS, FInstP, FAIP, FAA
Head | Physics, Astronomy and Medical Radiation Science
Director | Theoretical Physics

Curtin University, GPO Box U1987 Perth, Western Australia 6845
Tel |       +61 8 9266 7747
Fax |      +61 8 9266 2377
Mobile | +61 4 0489 2862  

Email | I.Bray at curtin.edu.au <mailto:I.Bray at curtin.edu.au>  
Web Curtin | http://curtin.edu.au
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/V81oBDhdR8rqtJ?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> 
Web Physics |
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/5vY4BzsWd8KgCW?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> http://physics.curtin.edu.au
Web TP | http://itp.curtin.edu.au
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/gn9mBKh8O4QlIW?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> 

Curtin University is a trademark of Curtin University
CRICOS Provider Code 00301J

From: Catalist <catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net> on behalf of Michael
McGarry <mmcgarry44 at gmail.com <mailto:mmcgarry44 at gmail.com> >
Reply-To: Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net
<mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net> >
Date: Saturday, 26 August 2017 8:45 am
To: Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net <mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net> >
Subject: [Catalist] Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in Australia

Greetings Science Colleagues,

"It could therefore be considered surprising that almost 60% of Australian
adults believe that God or a supernatural being was behind the universe and
all life, and the majority of these people do not accept the
well-established theory of evolution but believe that God brought about this
universe and life, fully developed and similar to how we see it today, out
of nothing."

Reference 1 URL:
https://www.plainreason.org/articles/survey-creationism-australia/
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/1RkoBVunOeKpSd?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> 

"Fundamentalist Christians believe their entire religious edifice will
crumble if they accept the raw facts of evolution.  The vast majority of
Christians fully embrace Darwin's Theory, yet Creationists persist with
teaching their children the alarming myths of Genesis and the "literal
truths" of the Old Testament."

Reference 2 URL:
https://www.plainreason.org/articles/intelligent-design-id-and-irreducible-c
omplexity-ic/
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/oDLWBNUa4k7QFz?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> 

Why do 60% of Australian adults reject the Theory of Biological Evolution?

Hypothesis 1: Do 60% of Australian adults reject the Theory of Biological
Evolution because: "In Australia's public schools, students are now
routinely exposed to evangelism from very conservative Christian groups?"

"Marion Maddox uncovers the surprising impact of these groups on once
secular public schooling, and the ways in which governments have been
persuaded to support their cause."

Reference 3:
https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/books/general-books/current-affairs-pol
itics/Taking-God-to-School-Marion-Maddox-9781743315712
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/AG1ZB0fLO2QXTz?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> 

Marion Maddox URL:
http://www.mq.edu.au/about_us/faculties_and_departments/faculty_of_arts/mhpi
r/staff/staff-politics_and_international_relations/professor_marion_maddox/
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/38L3B9hGoXKeSG?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> 

Hypothesis 2: Do 60% of Australian adults reject the Theory of Biological
Evolution because when students learn about biological evolution in their
science classes, students with fixed religious-mindsets, 'inherited' from
their parents and 'churches', reject the scientific evidence for biological
evolution?

Religions and Australian Constitution Law and Politics

Colleagues may find these two papers on the interplay of religions,
politics, and constitutional law in Australia most informative?

ICLRS URL: https://www.iclrs.org/content/blurb/files/Australia.1.pdf
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/q0YwBJTvoEO6FD?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> 

CAROLYN EVANS URL:
http://law.unimelb.edu.au/news/MLS/professor-carolyn-evans-appointed-deputy-
vice-chancellor
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/44GqBlUeonXqcY?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> 

AUSTLII URL: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/ANZLawHisteJl/2007/3.pdf
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/drxzBLf51DdMC5?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> 

CHARLOTTE BAINES URL:
http://adm.monash.edu/records-archives/archives/memo-archive/2004-2007/asset
s/includes/content/20100217/stories-around-monash3.html
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/Db1pB2heEVpocz?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> 

Religious Parents who refuse Medical Treatment for their sick Children

AIFS URL:
https://aifs.gov.au/publications/citizen-child-australian-law-and-childrens-
rights/8-medical-procedures-children
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/87W8Bmt8lDgoID?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> 

AVANT URL:
http://www.avant.org.au/news/20151103-court-intervenes-in-non-urgent-situati
on-for-child-of-jehovahs-witness-parents/
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/Qv1bBAsDOp3Nc8?domain=apac01.safelinks.pr
otection.outlook.com> 

KEMH URL: 

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