[Catalist] Fwd: Re: Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in Australia

Thu Nov 23 10:54:25 AEDT 2017

Hello, people.

Does it really matter what we believe? I know I was brainwashed liked most
young children into a belief in some deity - we needed that sometimes. But
only as children. As we supposedly grew up, we should have shrugged off
childish things, and consigned all that to a category "Belief in Santa
Claus". In a world where we have human beings occupying high offices with
no more intelligence than the cow or chicken, how can we say that we are
'civilised'. The truth is, we can believe what we like, if it floats our
boat - as long as it doesn't lead to violence. Unfortunately it does in a
lot of cases. Millions have died or been abused - or even put under house
arrest (Galileo) for simply re-stating what we already knew. Religion has
slowed down the progress of scientific discovery to a staggering degree. To
see how life could be, read "In the Days Of The Comet" by H.G. Wells.
Here endeth the lesson.

Alan Gent.

On 23 November 2017 at 08:42, gpmcmahon1 <gpmcmahon1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Leon
> An interesting discussion. Could you explain the logic behind your
> statement that the first cell didn't come from a deity because the
> existence of a deity cannot be tested? BTW have you seen the 2007 movie
> Flatland?
>
> Cheers Graham
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Leon Harris <leon at quoll.com>
> Date: 22/11/2017 11:27 PM (GMT+08:00)
> To: Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net>
> Subject: [Catalist] Fwd: Re: Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in
> Australia
>
>
> Well not from a flying spaghetti monster. Nor from any other being not
> supported by testable evidence.
>
> Many, I suspect, haven't fully formed a view of who. At our current stage
> of cultural development, we are more focussed on working on how. At this
> time, we apparently can't see beyond the singularity of the big bang, but
> there is no evidence of a deity available between now and that point. If
> there were, scientists would be religious, because we deal in evidence.
>
> When somebody discovers something, you are welcome to quote John 20:27 to
> me. Until that time, scientists will mostly remain sceptical.
>
>
>
> On 22/11/2017 11:05 PM, SAMUELS Norbert [Balga Senior High School] wrote:
>
>
> It could therefore be considered surprising that *almost 60% of
> Australian adults believe that God or a supernatural being was behind the
> universe and all life,* and the majority of these people do not accept
> the well-established theory of evolution but believe that God brought about
> this universe and life, fully developed and similar to how we see it today,
> out of nothing.”
>
> Reference 1 URL: https://www.plainreason.org/articles/survey-creationism-
> australia/
> <https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.plainreason.org%2Farticles%2Fsurvey-creationism-australia%2F&data=02%7C01%7CNorbert.Samuels%40education.wa.edu.au%7C0d121db9d2b04814cd2d08d531582411%7Ce08016f9d1fd4cbb83b0b76eb4361627%7C0%7C0%7C636469177019645511&sdata=kW%2BVP2t3RRQFo2dKg7br%2FiX5lG3b9KQn2z6Yj%2FPGzZw%3D&reserved=0>
> So if creationist believe evryyhinh that we see today was brought about
> from nothing.
>
> Where do evolutionist belive it came from?
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Gregory Munyard <gmunyard at iinet.net.au> <gmunyard at iinet.net.au>
> Date: 22/11/17 11:21 am (GMT+08:00)
> To: catalist at lists.stawa.net
> Subject: Re: [Catalist] Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in Australia
>
> Dear All
>
>
>
> What a pity we can’t be a bit more broad minded and accept that evolution
> doesn’t actually provide ALL the answers to the orgins of life (e.g. the
> “evolution” of DNA/ RNA polymerase, helicase, the whole protein synthesis
> system – without protein synthesis there is no polymerase), that there are
> many erroneous and fraudulent discrepancies (Haeckel’s embryos, the Biston
> betularia scandal) and that the science behind evolution is sadly lacking
> (we weren’t actually there to see what happened, so it’s not observational
> science). From my limited perspective, this post could equally be entitled
> “Belief in Evolutionist Pseudoscience in Australia”.  Now, let’s see the
> feathers fly.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Greg Munyard
>
>
>
> *From: *Catalist <catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net>
> <catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net> on behalf of Igor Bray
> <igor.bray at curtin.edu.au> <igor.bray at curtin.edu.au>
> *Reply-To: *"catalist at lists.stawa.net" <catalist at lists.stawa.net>
> <catalist at lists.stawa.net> <catalist at lists.stawa.net>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 21 November 2017 at 10:41 am
> *To: *"catalist at lists.stawa.net" <catalist at lists.stawa.net>
> <catalist at lists.stawa.net> <catalist at lists.stawa.net>
> *Subject: *Re: [Catalist] Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in Australia
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> I’d like to thank Michael McGarry for raising the issues below, and in
> particular to those relating to the Australian Academy of Science. As a new
> Fellow of the Academy (FAA) I have asked that the page at the last link
> below be rewritten, and until this has been done, be removed from the site.
> It has now been removed, and I hope to see the new draft before it goes
> public.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Igor
>
>
>
> --
>
> Igor Bray, John Curtin Distinguished Professor
> PhD, FAPS, FInstP, FAIP, FAA
> Head | Physics, Astronomy and Medical Radiation Science
> Director | Theoretical Physics
>
> Curtin University, GPO Box U1987 Perth, Western Australia 6845
> Tel |       +61 8 9266 7747
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>
> Email | *I.Bray at curtin.edu.au*
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>
> *From: *Catalist <catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net> on behalf of Michael
> McGarry <mmcgarry44 at gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net>
> *Date: *Saturday, 26 August 2017 8:45 am
> *To: *Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net>
> *Subject: *[Catalist] Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in Australia
>
>
>
> Greetings Science Colleagues,
>
> “It could therefore be considered surprising that *almost 60% of
> Australian adults believe that God or a supernatural being was behind the
> universe and all life,* and the majority of these people do not accept
> the well-established theory of evolution but believe that God brought about
> this universe and life, fully developed and similar to how we see it today,
> out of nothing.”
>
> Reference 1 URL: https://www.plainreason.org/articles/survey-creationism-
> australia/
> <https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.plainreason.org%2Farticles%2Fsurvey-creationism-australia%2F&data=02%7C01%7CNorbert.Samuels%40education.wa.edu.au%7C0d121db9d2b04814cd2d08d531582411%7Ce08016f9d1fd4cbb83b0b76eb4361627%7C0%7C0%7C636469177019645511&sdata=kW%2BVP2t3RRQFo2dKg7br%2FiX5lG3b9KQn2z6Yj%2FPGzZw%3D&reserved=0>
>
> “Fundamentalist Christians believe their entire religious edifice will
> crumble if they accept the raw facts of evolution.  The vast majority of
> Christians fully embrace Darwin’s Theory, yet Creationists persist with
> teaching their children the alarming myths of Genesis and the “literal
> truths” of the Old Testament.”
>
> Reference 2 URL: https://www.plainreason.org/articles/intelligent-design-
> id-and-irreducible-complexity-ic/
> <https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.plainreason.org%2Farticles%2Fintelligent-design-id-and-irreducible-complexity-ic%2F&data=02%7C01%7CNorbert.Samuels%40education.wa.edu.au%7C0d121db9d2b04814cd2d08d531582411%7Ce08016f9d1fd4cbb83b0b76eb4361627%7C0%7C0%7C636469177019645511&sdata=Ew3hWX68jg4TSNJnhogStGbedPXZY1aEFBXTNpJJR1Y%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Why do 60% of Australian adults reject the Theory of Biological Evolution?
>
> *Hypothesis 1:* Do 60% of Australian adults *reject* the Theory of
> Biological Evolution because: “In Australia’s public schools, students are
> now routinely exposed to evangelism from very conservative Christian
> groups?”
>
> “Marion Maddox uncovers the surprising impact of these groups on once
> secular public schooling, and the ways in which governments have been
> persuaded to support their cause.”
>
> Reference 3: https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/books/general-books/
> current-affairs-politics/Taking-God-to-School-Marion-Maddox-9781743315712
> <https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.allenandunwin.com%2Fbrowse%2Fbooks%2Fgeneral-books%2Fcurrent-affairs-politics%2FTaking-God-to-School-Marion-Maddox-9781743315712&data=02%7C01%7CNorbert.Samuels%40education.wa.edu.au%7C0d121db9d2b04814cd2d08d531582411%7Ce08016f9d1fd4cbb83b0b76eb4361627%7C0%7C0%7C636469177019645511&sdata=vTNjk%2BisRoehU5CFr0y19uSjAxVwlASVhL7vSEQCEkQ%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Marion Maddox URL: http://www.mq.edu.au/about_us/
> faculties_and_departments/faculty_of_arts/mhpir/staff/staff-politics_and_
> international_relations/professor_marion_maddox/
> <https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mq.edu.au%2Fabout_us%2Ffaculties_and_departments%2Ffaculty_of_arts%2Fmhpir%2Fstaff%2Fstaff-politics_and_international_relations%2Fprofessor_marion_maddox%2F&data=02%7C01%7CNorbert.Samuels%40education.wa.edu.au%7C0d121db9d2b04814cd2d08d531582411%7Ce08016f9d1fd4cbb83b0b76eb4361627%7C0%7C0%7C636469177019645511&sdata=bFhvWau3VPbdBfR91X3NebEBWTNJ8pxvDHqL3DzQVmE%3D&reserved=0>
>
> *Hypothesis 2:* Do 60% of Australian adults *reject* the Theory of
> Biological Evolution because when students learn about biological evolution
> in their science classes, students with fixed religious-mindsets,
> ‘inherited’ from their parents and ‘churches’, reject the scientific
> evidence for biological evolution?
>
> Religions and Australian Constitution Law and Politics
>
> Colleagues may find these two papers on the interplay of religions,
> politics, and constitutional law in Australia most informative?
>
> ICLRS URL: https://www.iclrs.org/content/blurb/files/Australia.1.pdf
> <https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iclrs.org%2Fcontent%2Fblurb%2Ffiles%2FAustralia.1.pdf&data=02%7C01%7CNorbert.Samuels%40education.wa.edu.au%7C0d121db9d2b04814cd2d08d531582411%7Ce08016f9d1fd4cbb83b0b76eb4361627%7C0%7C0%7C636469177019645511&sdata=ZOjxSEREV41aerOGtmkVmvbk3zybPuXB%2BuHQbomzIEo%3D&reserved=0>
>
> CAROLYN EVANS URL: http://law.unimelb.edu.au/news/MLS/professor-carolyn-
> evans-appointed-deputy-vice-chancellor
> <https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flaw.unimelb.edu.au%2Fnews%2FMLS%2Fprofessor-carolyn-evans-appointed-deputy-vice-chancellor&data=02%7C01%7CNorbert.Samuels%40education.wa.edu.au%7C0d121db9d2b04814cd2d08d531582411%7Ce08016f9d1fd4cbb83b0b76eb4361627%7C0%7C0%7C636469177019645511&sdata=oU%2FHdLPR%2Fc0l2Uy5hhuXBo8JcJyNu6VVMMQQ9eVWS%2FU%3D&reserved=0>
>
> AUSTLII URL: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/ANZLawHisteJl/2007/3.
> pdf
> <https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austlii.edu.au%2Fau%2Fjournals%2FANZLawHisteJl%2F2007%2F3.pdf&data=02%7C01%7CNorbert.Samuels%40education.wa.edu.au%7C0d121db9d2b04814cd2d08d531582411%7Ce08016f9d1fd4cbb83b0b76eb4361627%7C0%7C0%7C636469177019645511&sdata=QOvwXhNZEOWzu84%2F%2FXlIH8u9yTLurLTu%2FNCS4isA8PQ%3D&reserved=0>
>
> CHARLOTTE BAINES URL: http://adm.monash.edu/records-
> archives/archives/memo-archive/2004-2007/assets/includes/content/20100217/
> stories-around-monash3.html
> <https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fadm.monash.edu%2Frecords-archives%2Farchives%2Fmemo-archive%2F2004-2007%2Fassets%2Fincludes%2Fcontent%2F20100217%2Fstories-around-monash3.html&data=02%7C01%7CNorbert.Samuels%40education.wa.edu.au%7C0d121db9d2b04814cd2d08d531582411%7Ce08016f9d1fd4cbb83b0b76eb4361627%7C0%7C0%7C636469177019645511&sdata=NEbJAZoDmrOCW%2Fme7nAb8sgTFuGVjoX6FuaeiH5vKGM%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Religious Parents who refuse Medical Treatment for their sick Children
>
> AIFS URL: https://aifs.gov.au/publications/citizen-child-
> australian-law-and-childrens-rights/8-medical-procedures-children
> <https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faifs.gov.au%2Fpublications%2Fcitizen-child-australian-law-and-childrens-rights%2F8-medical-procedures-children&data=02%7C01%7CNorbert.Samuels%40education.wa.edu.au%7C0d121db9d2b04814cd2d08d531582411%7Ce08016f9d1fd4cbb83b0b76eb4361627%7C0%7C0%7C636469177019645511&sdata=nEpG1sUktxo2nfWJ%2F1yZAGCbGT6xaCEZTXPHxWE%2BJYk%3D&reserved=0>
>
> AVANT URL: http://www.avant.org.au/news/20151103-court-intervenes-in-
> non-urgent-situation-for-child-of-jehovahs-witness-parents/
> <https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avant.org.au%2Fnews%2F20151103-court-intervenes-in-non-urgent-situation-for-child-of-jehovahs-witness-parents%2F&data=02%7C01%7CNorbert.Samuels%40education.wa.edu.au%7C0d121db9d2b04814cd2d08d531582411%7Ce08016f9d1fd4cbb83b0b76eb4361627%7C0%7C0%7C636469177019645511&sdata=KOh2d1ZGlYUupOhem7MFCKfdt32urrBtF7IBjFzbLJc%3D&reserved=0>
>
> KEMH URL:
>
>
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