[Catalist] Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in Australia renaissance

Mon Mar 26 00:02:32 AEDT 2018

Thanks Colin,
Wow those Jordan Peterson videos are long, it’s not everyday I have time to watch a 2 hour Youtube clip! :) Can you recommend one in particular?

Thanks for your comments I appreciate your recognition of the influence of Christianity on our modern world. As a Christian myself I do notice a public perception that science and religion are pitted against each other. This is despite the fact I know a lot of Christian scientists and I’m sure many subscribers to Catalyst. I’d say it’s not an either/or issue Christianity vs science but instead a person can believe in God and science. When you believe in an ordered universe, governed by good and rational God it makes sense to want to spend your life studying it. 

I agree that we need to employ the scientific method, collect data and weigh up our theories against the evidence. We have puny, flawed perspectives and a natural tendency to bias hence we need the scientific method.

This scientific method you mention is secular. So the experiments and research conducted by scientists only involve the physical world. And rightly so. We are only concerned with what we can observe and measure with our senses and instruments. We use our reason and objective evidence to study our world and seek to understand it. Anyone can practice this- whether you think God  created you or have no interest in religion.

Please take notice of how believers use the word ‘faith’ though. If you ever read any serious Christian literature you’ll notice that no-one uses ‘faith’ to mean belief without reason. Richard Dawkins might promote this fallacy, however in theology faith means trust in God whose existence rests on other grounds. A scientist can have faith in God because of philosophical, historical and experiential reasons. Just like an engineer has faith in his modelling of strains, forces and material properties to keep the bridge from falling. Or my life insurance company has faith in its actuary to assess the risk of me crashing my car. 

Believing in God and studying science are not mutually exclusive. You can follow science and Jesus, and the faith versus fact myth is simplistic and unnecessary. There are some scientists who don’t believe in God and others who do. I’d say let them get on with doing what they love- investigating this amazing world.

Regards,

Mick Cameron

> On 24 Mar 2018, at 5:43 PM, Colin Dixon <crdixon at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> We, science teachers are letting the world down. We need to be more like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman>, or Dawkins.
> Passionate about Scientific Method. Don't let the takeaway be A theory is just a  current explanation of nature.
> Encourage scepticism, where is the data, evidence. If the data does to support the theory the theory is wrong.
> Global Warming renamed Climate Change is the Biggy. Science is never about consensus. In fact history tells us the majority is usually wrong.
> We need to be aware of the latest research on mindsets and incorporate that in our teaching. Recommended on this is https://lagunita.stanford.edu/courses/Education/EDUC115N/How_to_Learn_Math/about <https://lagunita.stanford.edu/courses/Education/EDUC115N/How_to_Learn_Math/about>
> 
> Faith has nothing to do with science. Faith is a belief without evidence. As soon as anyone tries to prove god they have missed the point.
> 
> We in the west and science have a lot to thank Christianity for the respect for the individual core within enabled the  renaissance and the current era. Lets not allow irrationality, superstition and emotion (eg Political Correctness) to win.
> 
> I would highly recommend https://www.youtube.com/user/JordanPetersonVideos <https://www.youtube.com/user/JordanPetersonVideos>
> 
> A great series o lectures especially his explanation of the biblical stories from a non religious view as to the underlying meaning.
> 
> Cheers Colin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:16 PM, Gregory Munyard <gmunyard at iinet.net.au <mailto:gmunyard at iinet.net.au>> wrote:
> Dear All
> 
>  
> 
> What a pity we can’t be a bit more broad minded and accept that evolution doesn’t actually provide ALL the answers to the orgins of life (e.g. the “evolution” of DNA/ RNA polymerase, helicase, the whole protein synthesis system – without protein synthesis there is no polymerase), that there are many erroneous and fraudulent discrepancies (Haeckel’s embryos, the Biston betularia scandal) and that the science behind evolution is sadly lacking (we weren’t actually there to see what happened, so it’s not observational science). From my limited perspective, this post could equally be entitled “Belief in Evolutionist Pseudoscience in Australia”.  Now, let’s see the feathers fly.
> 
>  
> 
> Regards
> 
>  
> 
> Greg Munyard
> 
>  
> 
> From: Catalist <catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net <mailto:catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net>> on behalf of Igor Bray <igor.bray at curtin.edu.au <mailto:igor.bray at curtin.edu.au>>
> Reply-To: "catalist at lists.stawa.net <mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net>" <catalist at lists.stawa.net <mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net>>
> Date: Tuesday, 21 November 2017 at 10:41 am
> To: "catalist at lists.stawa.net <mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net>" <catalist at lists.stawa.net <mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Catalist] Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in Australia
> 
>  
> 
> Dear All,
> 
>  
> 
> I’d like to thank Michael McGarry for raising the issues below, and in particular to those relating to the Australian Academy of Science. As a new Fellow of the Academy (FAA) I have asked that the page at the last link below be rewritten, and until this has been done, be removed from the site. It has now been removed, and I hope to see the new draft before it goes public.
> 
>  
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
>  
> 
> Igor
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Igor Bray, John Curtin Distinguished Professor
> PhD, FAPS, FInstP, FAIP, FAA
> Head | Physics, Astronomy and Medical Radiation Science
> Director | Theoretical Physics
> 
> Curtin University, GPO Box U1987 Perth, Western Australia 6845
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> Email | I.Bray at curtin.edu.au <> 
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>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Catalist <catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net <mailto:catalist-bounces at lists.stawa.net>> on behalf of Michael McGarry <mmcgarry44 at gmail.com <mailto:mmcgarry44 at gmail.com>>
> Reply-To: Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net <mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net>>
> Date: Saturday, 26 August 2017 8:45 am
> To: Catalist <catalist at lists.stawa.net <mailto:catalist at lists.stawa.net>>
> Subject: [Catalist] Belief in Creationist Pseudoscience in Australia
> 
>  
> 
> Greetings Science Colleagues,
> 
> “It could therefore be considered surprising that almost 60% of Australian adults believe that God or a supernatural being was behind the universe and all life, and the majority of these people do not accept the well-established theory of evolution but believe that God brought about this universe and life, fully developed and similar to how we see it today, out of nothing.”
> 
> Reference 1 URL: https://www.plainreason.org/articles/survey-creationism-australia/ <https://www.plainreason.org/articles/survey-creationism-australia/>
> “Fundamentalist Christians believe their entire religious edifice will crumble if they accept the raw facts of evolution.  The vast majority of Christians fully embrace Darwin’s Theory, yet Creationists persist with teaching their children the alarming myths of Genesis and the “literal truths” of the Old Testament.”
> 
> Reference 2 URL: https://www.plainreason.org/articles/intelligent-design-id-and-irreducible-complexity-ic/ <https://www.plainreason.org/articles/intelligent-design-id-and-irreducible-complexity-ic/>
> Why do 60% of Australian adults reject the Theory of Biological Evolution?
> 
> Hypothesis 1: Do 60% of Australian adults reject the Theory of Biological Evolution because: “In Australia’s public schools, students are now routinely exposed to evangelism from very conservative Christian groups?”
> 
> “Marion Maddox uncovers the surprising impact of these groups on once secular public schooling, and the ways in which governments have been persuaded to support their cause.”
> 
> Reference 3: https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/books/general-books/current-affairs-politics/Taking-God-to-School-Marion-Maddox-9781743315712 <https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/books/general-books/current-affairs-politics/Taking-God-to-School-Marion-Maddox-9781743315712>
> Marion Maddox URL: http://www.mq.edu.au/about_us/faculties_and_departments/faculty_of_arts/mhpir/staff/staff-politics_and_international_relations/professor_marion_maddox/ <http://www.mq.edu.au/about_us/faculties_and_departments/faculty_of_arts/mhpir/staff/staff-politics_and_international_relations/professor_marion_maddox/>
> Hypothesis 2: Do 60% of Australian adults reject the Theory of Biological Evolution because when students learn about biological evolution in their science classes, students with fixed religious-mindsets, ‘inherited’ from their parents and ‘churches’, reject the scientific evidence for biological evolution?
> 
> Religions and Australian Constitution Law and Politics
> 
> Colleagues may find these two papers on the interplay of religions, politics, and constitutional law in Australia most informative?
> 
> ICLRS URL: https://www.iclrs.org/content/blurb/files/Australia.1.pdf <https://www.iclrs.org/content/blurb/files/Australia.1.pdf>
> CAROLYN EVANS URL: http://law.unimelb.edu.au/news/MLS/professor-carolyn-evans-appointed-deputy-vice-chancellor <http://law.unimelb.edu.au/news/MLS/professor-carolyn-evans-appointed-deputy-vice-chancellor>
> AUSTLII URL: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/ANZLawHisteJl/2007/3.pdf <http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/ANZLawHisteJl/2007/3.pdf>
> CHARLOTTE BAINES URL: http://adm.monash.edu/records-archives/archives/memo-archive/2004-2007/assets/includes/content/20100217/stories-around-monash3.html <http://adm.monash.edu/records-archives/archives/memo-archive/2004-2007/assets/includes/content/20100217/stories-around-monash3.html>
> Religious Parents who refuse Medical Treatment for their sick Children
> 
> AIFS URL: https://aifs.gov.au/publications/citizen-child-australian-law-and-childrens-rights/8-medical-procedures-children <https://aifs.gov.au/publications/citizen-child-australian-law-and-childrens-rights/8-medical-procedures-children>
> AVANT URL: http://www.avant.org.au/news/20151103-court-intervenes-in-non-urgent-situation-for-child-of-jehovahs-witness-parents/ <http://www.avant.org.au/news/20151103-court-intervenes-in-non-urgent-situation-for-child-of-jehovahs-witness-parents/>
> KEMH URL: http://www.kemh.health.wa.gov.au/development/manuals/O&G_guidelines/sectionb/2/b2.14.pdf <http://www.kemh.health.wa.gov.au/development/manuals/O&G_guidelines/sectionb/2/b2.14.pdf>
> ABC URL: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-15/christian-scientists-exempt-from-new-vaccination-laws/6395480 <http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-15/christian-scientists-exempt-from-new-vaccination-laws/6395480>
> Question: Given that 60% of Australian adults reject the Theory of Biological Evolution, should the Australian Academy of Science delete this sentence from their 2005 ‘position statement’ on the teaching of creationist pseudoscience in Australian schools?
> 
> “The [Australian] Academy [of Science] sees no objection to the teaching of creationism in schools as part of a course in dogmatic or comparative religion, or in some other non-scientific context.”
> 
> AAS Reference URL: https://www.science.org.au/supporting-science/science-policy/position-statements/creationism-and-intelligent-design <https://www.science.org.au/supporting-science/science-policy/position-statements/creationism-and-intelligent-design>
> Thanks and Best Wishes,
> 
> Michael John McGarry
> 
> 
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> -- 
> kindest regards
> Colin Dixon 0419 415000 :)
> 
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